Graziano Sag 14 Manual
I will hopefully have it here within the next 3-4 weeks. Mark Don't you (or a good friend) have a vehicle with a decent trailer hitch on it? For things like this I rent a U-Haul 6x12 open trailer - that's how I got my SAG 12 home from the freight terminal and how I moved a Lagun vertical mill (about 2800 lbs) from Austin to Dallas.
Graziano SAG 210 lathe: http. My SAG 12 manual says the lathe is aimed particularly. The SAG 14 at work with heavy 300mm/12' 3 jaw has been slowed using its. Graziano machine tools were made in Tortona, Italy and although a wide range of lathes was manufactured, the company's most popular appears to have been the SAG 180, later to be sold as the improved SAG 14. With more than 10.6 million unique visitors over the last year, Practical Machinist is the most visited site for metalworking professionals. Practical Machinist is the easiest way to learn new techniques, get answers quickly and discuss common challenges with your peers.
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No one around here has one of those trailers that lowers the bed to rent or hire. I am all ears for a suggestion on how to load/unload it. My compliments on the incredible work you are doing on that SAG 12! I still don't understand what exactly the Turcite is for (in place of wipers?), but as I said, I have a lot to learn.
To run the 5HP motor on the Graziano, there are not a lot of choices and a rotary phase converter is looking like a more suitable candidate. I have never used or been around one, are they moderately quiet? I see that the key feature is that the RPC will allow 100% efficency of the motor rating (obviously if sized correctly). I guess I will burn that bridge when I get to it.
Able to generate a generous range of 60 rates of sliding and surfacing feeds and 30 English, 30 metric and 30 module threads the screwcutting gearbox was fully sealed against the ingress of dirt and chips, operated by rotary controls and fitted with its own centralised lubrication system. A later model, the Sag 12S, looked rather different to the standard 12 however, it was basically the same lathe, but with 'squared' styling and a more appealing blue paint finish. However, one major change was the replacement of an electric change gearbox by an expanding/contracting 'Reeves' pulley-drive system, although the forward and reverse electric clutch and electric brake were retained and the speed, direction and braking of the spindle still controlled by switches on the carriage. Most of these SAG 12 lathes are found with a 3 HP motor - and weighed approximately 1000 kg. Hi Ted, I need to pull the apron off and do some repairs/tuneup. Check bose serial number. The oil leaks out of the apron a little too fast. So I need to locate the source of the leak (most likely a seal) and repair as needed.
As Moons noted, when I first saw it- and the price, he's asking $2K (!) - and I saw the missing cross-slide I figured nope, that thing's junk. Only reason I even bothered to go look was that it was only about eight miles away and I needed to get out of the shop.
Mark Don't you (or a good friend) have a vehicle with a decent trailer hitch on it? For things like this I rent a U-Haul 6x12 open trailer - that's how I got my SAG 12 home from the freight terminal and how I moved a Lagun vertical mill (about 2800 lbs) from Austin to Dallas. If not, wouldn't it be cheaper to rent a large SUV with hitch to pull it than to hire someone to haul it?
The only reason I'd suspect it was, if it is, is as mentioned above- strength through some thin cross-section. Seems odd they'd go with a different material altogether rather than simply redesign the part to lose the weak point, so I suspect the fellow that mentioned that factoid is mistaken (or, as suggested, he has a model with a shop-made replacement.) Yet it is a most beautifully made piece of machinery, hardened and ground parts everywhere, when you take it apart it seems built at cost-no-object.
Graziano Sag 14 Manual Pdf
Some of the SAG 12s' had a brake, I think it simply electically engages the forward and reverse clutches at the same time. SAG 12 owners without a brake simply use reverse to slow the lathe, as you do on the SAG 14 with its mechanical clutch. Not sure if this was recommended by the makers, but it is what happens when no brake is supplied. The SAG 14 at work with heavy 300mm/12' 3 jaw has been slowed using its reverse clutch for all its life without replacement, but of late the reverse clutch is a bit tired. John, I shot you an email earlier today: on Doc's thread on PracticalMachinist, a SAG 210 owner mentioned that the saddle is steel, which is unique, AFAIK. I'm curious about that -- on a cost-is-no-object lathe like the SAG, why would they not use cast iron for the saddle? Is the machine so massive they didn't think they needed the vibration damping of cast iron?
I did not get a steady or follow rest with the lathe. I have since purchased a follow rest off of eBay that I believe was from a Clausing lathe and did a little machining to it and made an adapter plate for it to attach to the carriage like the Graziano unit would.
A SAG 20 / SAG 508 / SAG 230 with slightly different styling--but of identical mechanical construction to the 508 shown above. This model was offered with centre distances of 1500 mm (59'), 2000 mm (78.7') and 2500 mm (98.4'). The swing in the gap was 708 mm (27.8').
I bought a used dead Sag 210 several years ago from Halliday machinery in Seattle. They were the Graziano dealers and they spent 4000 dollars and could not fix the controls. They were not completly honest as the machine was a nc and they threw the brain box away. I got the prints and rewired the machine back to a convential engine lathe in about 2 months. I ended up buying 4 new electric clutches and some new gears and shafts for the gear box from Italy.
Is the machine so massive they didn't think they needed the vibration damping of cast iron? I am not sure what material the cross slide is on a SAG 14, it could be steel, but I would need to check closer. Steel would be much stronger than cast iron, and it needs strength because the compound slide assembly is clamped to external vee-ways/dovetails on the edges of the cross slide. I just assumed it was cast iron (despite being rectangular and machined-all-over) because of its wearing properties. The carriage itself is cast iron, maybe steel on cast iron is an acceptable slideway combination, I am a little dubious.
As with any purchase of a used machine tool actual condition of the unit in question is key. There are good ones and bad ones. However, from an overall perspective, the SAG 14 was/is a fine machine. We bought one for our shop about 1990 and used it till '98 when we down-sized and got rid of it. I'd jump at the chance to get another one if the condition was decent.
I think the lathe was overfilled with oil in the lower area, because I have quite a puddle coming out from under the headstock area. Otherwise it has a bladder problem. I will open the side panel and see if I can determine the source.
Later-model 180s had three English-made 'Gamet' high-precision bearings were and the spindle bore increased in size to 2.25 inches - changes carried over to the next model, the SAG 14. While the bushed spindle had a large notched threaded collar to adjust the bearing clearance, the Gamet-bearing equipped machines can be identified by a bevelled collar held on with socket head-cap screws behind the D1-5 spindle nose.
I am not sure how to post a picture. Got any ideas how I do it? The lathe is really cool and I just love to run it. The way the crose feed screw is designed there is no back last at all and I put on newall digital readouts for the bed and cross feed. This lathe looks like are race car or something from the back side. Jcbinc, Here is a thread on posting images: Basically you need to download your photos onto a host like Photobucket, that makes them accessible. It is free and not too difficult (though it took me a while to figure it out ) If all else fails, you can e-mail me an image and I can post it for you.
A detailed write up on a SAG12 referb. Showing a complete overhaul of the gearbox and re winding the clutch electromagnets.which could help you with that one. Rob Rob, The write up was made by GizmoWizard and featured on the PM forum Graziano pages along with a few other gems. Here is Gizmo's excellent work, see Graziano SAG12 Transmission Repair: There has been another post since then discussing re winding the coils too, though not in such detail. I'm considering offering the guy scrap price for it, and if he bites, I'll need as much outside technical help as I can get.:D We did open the end cover while I was there, and while the light was fading at the time, I could see there's a big gearbox in the foot, and three long belts going up to a pulley just to the left of the headstock. All of which looked in pretty decent condition- supposedly the thing had been tarped up until he took it off to snap the photos the day before. (I'm assuming he retarped it after I left.) But as I said, the thing's basically untestable as it is.
The motor was a 5 h.p. Unit (with electrical control by a 'third shaft' operated by a lever pivoting from the right-hand face of the apron) with the spindle arranged for instant reverse through a double friction clutch (though not all models may have been so equipped). Usefully, the spindle start, stop and reverse could be operated from controls on the apron as well as the headstock.
BTW guys, if you are going to use a VFD to drive your lathe, you will need some of this info to input into the drives parameters.
Mark, Good to see that you got the lathe home successfully. Looks just like it did about 18 months ago when I bought mine.
I'm told it basically just a rectangular block- no fancy casting needed, so it'd be easy to cut from a bar. Now, that bar will probably turn out to be 6' wide, 2' or 3' tall, and over a foot long, so I can see maybe a couple of hundred in raw material alone.
I just want to have a machine that will remove any excuses for error, if something goes out of whack, I want to be certain it is the loose nut operating the machine. This is is how I work with firearms, remove the mechanical excuses and you are left with the failings of the operator.
The one I bought, is newer, but is anyone's guess. I got two frozen up live centers (Skoda), that turned out to be rusted internally, one was fair and the other was in decent shape. I tore them down and cleaned them up as best as I could and repacked them with grease.
I mentioned this idea at work and one of the guys mentioned that he thought that we had some skates. A quick check in another building proved that was a true statement.
Sag 180 spindle bearing email: Graziano SAG Lathes - Italy Instruction, Maintenance & Parts Manuals for many SAG lathes.
Stan and I spent quite a bit of time trying to determine the age of the three Sag14's in his shop at the time and we somehow came to the conclusion that the lathe you have and mine were early 80's vintage machines. I don't even remember how we came to that conclusion. There are no dates in my factory manual and I even have the original order sheet for mine and even it doesn't have any dates on it. If you ever find a source for this information I would like to know. Yes, Stan is quite the conversationist.
As some of you know, I have wanted to stop managing H-M for some time. It's a tremendous strain on my personal life. I want to set up my own shop.
Here is Gizmo's excellent work, see Graziano SAG12 Transmission Repair: There has been another post since then discussing re winding the coils too, though not in such detail. I'm considering offering the guy scrap price for it, and if he bites, I'll need as much outside technical help as I can get.:D We did open the end cover while I was there, and while the light was fading at the time, I could see there's a big gearbox in the foot, and three long belts going up to a pulley just to the left of the headstock. All of which looked in pretty decent condition- supposedly the thing had been tarped up until he took it off to snap the photos the day before. (I'm assuming he retarped it after I left.) But as I said, the thing's basically untestable as it is. It's outside, no 3-phase nearby, not sure if there's even 220v nearby, and it's damned cold. Even if it were inside, I'd want to open things up a bit, change the gearbox oil, etc. Before I lit anything off.
You may consider collets as an alternative to buying a smaller chuck. Another handy item is a good 4-jaw chuck. Made mention of the different bearing housing on Stan's lathe. Since buying mine, I have noticed many other differences in these lathes based on age. Mine is identical to yours (except it's 40' instead of 60'), but I've noticed that earlier models have a different switch panel, different carriage, cross slide and compound and early Sag 180's even had different spindle speeds and speed selectors. There are probably a lot of other differences that I don't know about.
One might live, but I think the other is going to give good service. I only got one 3 jaw chuck and it is a 10', I will keep my eyes open for a smaller unit (6'-8') that won't break the bank, but I would so much rather have something a little less massive for day to day use. Now it will be just a quiet week waiting for the chance to get it under power.